INTERVIEW WITH CHANDRA

YC: What brought you to the path of yoga?

Chandra: I was young, around 21 or 22 and I had accomplished most of what I had spent my formative years dreaming about and believing would bring me happiness. All the things I had dreamed about since childhood and through my teenage years, I’d had the good fortune to achieve by the time I was 21 or 22. I had everything in the world to be happy about but I was not. I wasn’t sad or depressed or unhappy. But I was not content and could see that what I had spent years dreaming about did not bring the fulfillment I had thought it would.  Around the same time, a friend asked me if I wanted to attend a yoga class with them.  I thought that might be the answer to whatever it was that was missing, the missing piece of why I was neither happy or unhappy and felt the need for something deeper or more fulfilling in my life. And it was. Like most people, I was brought to yoga because of a deep feeling of absence in my life. I was fortunate to have good teachers from the very beginning.

YC: How did you start teaching?

Chandra: My Guru told me to. In my years of study, it was primarily one on one. As I progressed he would spoon-feed me. We would work on several mantras. We would work on the breathing practices, postures, kriyas and of course the yamas and niyamas. One day he would say to me, “now you’ve got it” and we’d move on to something else and wouldn’t revisit it again. After a couple of years, he said to me, “now you should teach.” After that, when I would study, then when he would say to me, “now you’ve got that. Now you may teach that.” I had no desire to teach. No intention of it, no thought of it.  I did it solely because he instructed me to.

YC: Why did you start the North Carolina School of Yoga?

Chandra: One day we were; it was about the year 2000 and one day we were somewhere. And yoga was becoming more and more popular, at least in New York, for 3 or 4 years prior to 2000. You could feel it was beginning to trickle into the rest of the country. And my Guru and I were speaking about the importance of preserving traditional yoga in the midst of its popularization.

Understanding and already beginning to witness (at that time) that as things begin to gain popularity there is often a commercialism of even sacred things. So he told me to be sure to do what I could to train teachers in the traditional, classical way so there would be a place for those interested in that approach to go and study.

YC: There are so many types of yoga, is classical yoga still relevant today?

Chandra: Of course.  Classical yoga is relevant because it’s the full system of yoga. Because otherwise one may be thinking that they are progressing, yet only reinforcing the ego and sense-attachments.

YC: If you master a pose, does this mean you are progressing?

Chandra: Not according to traditional yoga. You may be progressing physically. But the real heart of yoga, the real measure of successful progress is dependent on the lessening of one’s ego. The lessoning of one’s identification as the doer or the enjoyer of any action. In reality, yoga does not need anything from us. It doesn’t need us to come up with newfangled ideas or additions to the system. My Guru always said that if you do receive some kind of divine inspiration, and that evolves the science, then that’s OK. But never attach your name to it. Never become identified as the doer of what you are implementing or adding. But that is a very rare occurrence.

In reality all yoga is rooted in classical yoga.  I am not in any way knocking or saying anything negative about any the more modern adaptations of yoga.  But classical, traditional yoga really is just yoga. For that reason alone, how could it be irrelevant in today’s society? It was always relevant because people have always needed to come home to the Self if they’ve forgotten briefly. And that phenomenon still exists today. If it exists in the future, then yoga will have a place. There is no more elegant and efficient system of coming home to who you truly are, and it’s really quite simple. The system of yoga…doesn’t need to be complicated by the ego or ego-driven distraction.

YC: Is it possible for Westerners today to achieve the goal of Self-realization?

Chandra: Of course. Why not?

YC: How is it possible here?

Chandra: The cave is within. How could it be impossible? One has to simply want it; you have to want Self-realization more than you want self-gratification. You have to want Self-realization more than you want sensory gratification or experience. It’s not a judgment. It’s merely a question of priority. And we have free will. It really is up to each individual to determine how far they wish to go in their own spiritual evolution. Some people will come to yoga and feel very clearly that they’ve experienced and are experiencing some wonderful happiness or mental benefits or some wonderful health benefits and know that they are content with that – that they really don’t wish to annihilate the personality or the ego. That they enjoy the phenomenal world and are having a good time playing in it and are happy to simply work at being a better person – a noble and honorable member of society while still enjoying the phenomenal world and all that comes with it, and that is perfectly wonderful. There is nothing wrong with that. That is each individual’s right, to choose how far they wish to go.

But if you look around. Say you feel a little bit more finished with the sensory world. You see eating, drinking and making merry as being a little more empty than you did in past. Then you know for certain, “I can go as far as I wish – even Self-realization if that is my highest desire. But I must move away from the external.” The key is that you must go within and turn the outward external movement of the senses back inward. Then you find it very quickly.

YC: Why did you start the Ashram?

Chandra: The ashram was a natural outgrowth of the school. As the school evolved, more and more people were coming who were putting down roots. Many people were moving here from other areas to study at the school. Most of the students at the school were there for years and years and wanted to study at a deeper level. And so we just knew that the type of humanitarian work and type of sadhana that the students were moving into as natural outgrowth of their own spiritual evolution needed a more introspective, quiet and consistent environment. We were no longer interested in certifying teachers. The work moved much more into a humanitarian effort.

YC: Humanitarian Effort? Can you explain?

Chandra: Helping. Helping physically, spiritually, psychologically. Helping. Reaching out without any personal motivation or self-interest. An ashram is traditionally designed to be a center of service. And there really is no differentiation between an ashram and a yoga center. Traditionally speaking, the terms are interchangeable. Traditional yoga classes are offered at ashrams. In modern vernacular, they are asana-centric with a bit of pranayama, mantra, meditation, relaxation. Those are almost always part and parcel of an ashram or monastic setting. But the real heart and primary work of an ashram or yoga center should be outreach – service of community. It might be in a crisis, but much more so in day-to-day living. If someone is in need of food or clothing or healthcare it is offered freely to those who are in need of it. That also includes spiritual counsel, which is part and parcel of yoga. Yoga really is ministry. All of this is generally offered freely to whatever community the ashram happens to be in, in any part of the world.

YC: Is the Ashram set up for Self-realization?

Chandra: I hope so. Yes.

YC: What should someone do if they are looking for a Guru?

Chandra: Pray and reflect. Reflect on what it is that you are really looking for in a Guru. Because there are many different levels of Gurus, just as there are many different levels of teachers. Reflect on what your inner motives are behind the yearning. You have to really scrutinize your motives in all areas of life but in something as important as praying for a Guru or yearning for a Guru, to scrutinize your inner motives very carefully and be honest with yourself as to what it is you want. Just reflect as to why and then pray, very sincerely, and be patient. And do your own work in the interim. Faith without work is dead. It’s not just enough to pray, although prayer is very powerful. You have to do more than reflect, although reflection is very powerful. You’ve got to work. You’ve got to work at your own purification, your own evolution, your own conquering of lower tendencies and cultivation of ethics and honorable qualities in the interim so that you’re that much more prepared when the Guru comes along. There’s that much less they have to scrub off or polish.

YC: What is the mission or purpose underlying the teachings?

Chandra: The mission or purpose is love. Love. I don’t really care if we talk about yoga or not. Yoga just happens to be the medium, if that is the right word, the vehicle, that all of this work has seemed to take. Or healing. I work with a lot of sick people. So sometimes, it’s yoga in a very broad sense but not in modern vernacular of yoga.

The heart of it is love. Whether it’s an asana-centric class or lecture or satsang, whether it’s yoga nidra or kirtan or sitting in an airport, it’s love. That’s the mission.  To show the way home to unconditional love for others. Not in a general feel-good sense. But in a very literal way. To experience love. To come home to who you truly are. To recognize you are not this body, not this mind, not the breath, the senses, the mind, but the consciousness behind mind, body, senses, breath. And we are one. And not again in a figurative sense, but in a very literal sense. That we are one. That all of these false divisions are illusory. They are not real. That’s the … I don’t know if I would call it a mission. But that’s the purpose.

If we come together to do some yoga that’s wonderful. If we’re having a meal together or doing therapeutic treatment or some kind of medicinal work that’s fine. If we’re sitting in line at the grocery store, it’s the same.  Love.

YC: What can one do about fear?

Chandra: The first step is to scrutinize your motives constantly. Not in a harsh way but to constantly reflect on your inner motive of doing things. “Why is it that I want to do this or don’t want to do this?” How does one begin to let go of doership? Constantly reflect on one’s inner motive before acting or speaking at any time.

One must cultivate fearlessness, and that is what you must reflect on as you simultaneously reflect on inner motives for doing something. Reflect on your unassailability.  If I’m reflecting on inner motives for what I’m about to say or do whether speaking here in an interview or opening a yoga center or attending a meeting or teaching a class, what is the real motivation behind it? Is it an honorable motivation? Is it rooted in yama and niyama, or is it rooted in ego?

Of course most of the time it will be intermingled. It won’t be black and white. But what is predominant? Is it more lofty or altruistic, or is it more ego serving? But then to reflect on, as you reflect, if you realize you are afraid and what’s stopping you is your own fear, what is it you are afraid of?  At the root of all fear is desire. What it is it you desire? Maybe to be liked. To be comfortable. Name and fame. Maybe a desire not to fail. Not to be laughed at. And then you concentrate on your unassailability; that “I’ve been uncomfortable before and I’ve survived. If I’m being perfectly honest, I did grow from it; it tapped into areas of strength I didn’t know existed. I came out of it more aware, self-reflective, and more established in the Self.”  And then you move forward from there.

YC: Why have you continually declined offers to appear on the cover of Yoga Journal and present at large conferences?

Chandra: No one needs me at a yoga conference. I doubt I would be a big seller. I like very simple and quiet things. And I like things done in a very simple and quiet way. If I really felt like they were desperate for bodies, then maybe if I felt it would help the organization in some way, but there are lots of people that like those sorts of things. I’m sure there is no shortage of other people they can ask.

YC: Are name and fame an obstacle on the path of yoga?

Chandra: No, but the attachment and identification with them can most definitely be. But in and of themselves, no they are not. But they can be very tempting, as can all sensory experiences, in the physical and astral planes, to fall from the path. To succumb to egoism, name and fame would be right in there with them, no more no less than any other temptations. So one has to simply be mindful.

YC: How can one avoid being attached to such things?

Chandra: In a nutshell, renunciation of the fruits. That means you constantly scrutinize your motives. You have to be very self-aware and constantly be running your actions through the lens of renunciation. You know within your own heart if you are chasing name and fame. You know if you are desirous of accolades. You know if you are not adhering to yama and niyama. You know. You know deep in your heart what your inner motives are. You have to keep note of your heart.

YC: Why would someone want to give up their ego?

Chandra: You don’t give it up. You set it aside, meaning that for a period of time you put it down so that you can come home to who you truly are. It is just like a drag queen. It is the perfect analogy for what we’re speaking about. Because we all put on costumes. We all put on drag every day. Some put on the drag of a politician or mother, some people the head of a utility company, some wear the drag of a writer, some of a yoga teacher. But they’re all illusory. You may be looking at someone like RuPaul or Lady Bunny and think that the illusion is very obvious to see. I can see they put on artifice and it comes off at the end of the day. But we’re all doing same thing.

The path of yoga and Self-realization is not meant to be an experience of pain or deprivation or suffering. It is a conscious, willful and joyous relinquishing of that which is not real. And through our own self-reflection, we realize, we discriminate, we discern; I’m busy putting this face on and that mask on and I might have a ball doing it, being a yoga teacher or a writer or mother or head of a utility company. But I want to know what is behind all the faces. I want to know what is behind all the drag, what is reality. Who am I really? Who am I when it all falls away?  Because eventually it will all fall away. Who am I behind the masks?

The key is, that as one reflects on the nature of reality, as your depth of study goes deeper and deeper, this is a reasoning that you come to on your own. So the relinquishing or setting aside of various roles or drags we put on is joyful. If it is upsetting or frightening, it’s not time to do it, so don’t worry about it. Just adhere to yama and niyama and keep having a ball and recognize that you’re like RuPaul and Lady Bunny and have a ball. But realize we’re all in drag, we’re all putting on various faces. At least recognize that as you are playing in it. But there will come a time, through your own discrimination, you will come to a point and realize you want to put it down for a little awhile. You put clothes aside for a little while, for a season and feel no sadness over it.  You know you’ll pick it back up again at some later time.  You set aside the ego freely and joyfully and work on coming home to who you truly are. When you’ve found the Self that is behind all the faces, and want to put on winter clothes again and become a utility head, or writer or accountant again, that’s fine. You play. But now you can pick all those personalities back up, but without being identified with them or taking them to be real.

YC: How did having a Guru change your spiritual practice?

Chandra: It changed everything. At the heart of it, is that I then began to believe that it was all possible. There are a lot of children at the ashram. And I have a lot of children in my life. And the one thing that you see time and time again is that if an adult believes in a child, that the child almost immediately begins to believe in themselves. If that adult is exceptionally special to that child, then their belief in themselves is even greater and their belief in their ability to succeed is greater.  They begin to believe anything is possible.

That was the biggest change, was that from the very first my Guru was generous and truthful and kind, and he would tell me things about myself, about my future, about why I came into this life. About what my destiny was, about many things. And he had such faith in me and was so matter-of-fact about it. It wasn’t even a mutual discussion. He would simply say to me, “you’re going to do this, you’re going to do that” or “do you know what lifetime this is?”  Many kind things he would say to me. And since I knew he wouldn’t lie to me I knew it must be true. Wow? Really? Me? The biggest way it changed spiritual practice was that I believed it was possible. I believed everything was possible. Everything I’d read about, prayed for. Self-realization. I was never interested in any of the journey or the experiences that came with it. I really believed it, and that changed everything. I believed in myself from the moment that I met him because he believed in me. And that changed everything.

YC: How did you find your Guru?

Chandra: I was blessed with very good teachers from very beginning.  Only a few, but the best of the best.  One that led to the next that led to the next. I started in North Carolina with 2 excellent teachers and eventually began studying with Swami Bua in New York. He was a very good teacher and very kind to me. Very traditional –  everything I was looking for. I was learning a lot and had great respect for him. But I was reading a lot of the autobiographical accounts of yoga: Sivananda. Vivekananda. Yogananda. And everything I was reading indicated that you needed a Guru to make rapid advancement in yoga and that was what I wanted. I wanted to go as far as God and my karma would allow in the path of yoga. The more that I studied with the wonderful teachers I was studying with, I knew more and more in my heart that that was what I wanted. I knew I wanted to meet my Guru. That I wanted a traditional Guru-disciple relationship. So I prayed continually that I would meet the master that I was destined to study with and that they would expect me. I did not pray I would succeed or any sort of results or what would happen once I met a Guru. I just prayed to meet a master. And to be accepted.

One day Swami Bua said to me there’s this teacher downtown, maybe you should go and see him. Because I had great love and respect for Swami Bua, I did the very next day. That was it. The moment that I walked into my Guru’s center, I knew.  And I was standing there just sort of looking around, taking everything in, and he came up to me and said, “Oh, it’s you.” So I thought that Swami Bua had called him and said “I’m sending this young girl down to you.” I had thought that’s why he said “it’s you” and seemed to be expecting me. And I found later that it wasn’t.

YC: What was your first class with your Guru like?

Chandra: It was really nice. It was quiet. There were about six students. It was the way classes used to be. It was quiet, still, very reverent, very advanced – not just physically. But the pranayama, the meditation was very advanced. It was very intimate and personal. It had an air of deep communion between the instructor and the students.

YC: Did you feel a connection right from the beginning?

Chandra: Yes.

YC: Did you go back right away?

Chandra: I did. In the days I began studying it was much different. There’d be 3 people in class, five people, six people, maybe a packed class would be 8 or 9 people. I did go back right away. I the first few days, all the time constantly, in those first two weeks, the Guru would come and put both of his hands on my head. Constantly. Before class, during class, after class. I would just be sitting there or in pose or waiting for class to begin. In those days no one spoke prior to class or after class. Everyone came in very quietly, set themselves up and would just sit. Once in a while someone would smile or offer pranam to someone. So before class, it was very quiet. There wasn’t a lot of activity and I would just be sitting and would suddenly feel hands on my head. That happened a lot in the first two weeks. After about two weeks I approached the teacher and said, “Could I formally study with you? Would you accept me as a student?” He asked me a couple of questions and said yes. I began to study one on one with him privately. I didn’t really go to class much after that.

YC: What was it like to work so closely with him?

Chandra: It was nice. It was fun. I don’t mean that in a casual way. There was always a lot of laugher, humor, teasing and making fun of things on his part. And very nice.